Bob Thiel, accuser of the brethren, must be looking in the mirror again.
37 He answered, “The one who sows the good seed is the Son of Man. 38 The field is the world, and the good seed is the sons of the kingdom. The weeds are the sons of the evil one, 39 and the enemy who sowed them is the devil. The harvest is the end of the age, and the reapers are angels. 40 Just as the weeds are gathered and burned with fire, so will it be at the end of the age. 41 The Son of Man will send his angels, and they will gather out of his kingdom all causes of sin and all law-breakers, 42 and throw them into the fiery furnace. In that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth. 43 Then the righteous will shine like the sun in the kingdom of their Father. He who has ears, let him hear.
~ Mt 13:37-43 (ESV)
It is interesting that whenever Bob Thiel gets called out for being the liar and pretender that he is that he turns around and accuses others of doing exactly what he himself engages in. In particular, he has called me an “accuser of the brethren“ in his latest attack called “Bob Thiel addresses some false statements from ‘accusers of the brethren’”.
For years, COGWriter Dr Bob Thiel has promoted himself and whatever organization he claimed allegiance to, but he has done it continually by comparing himself and his organization to others in order to put others down and make himself and his organization look better. In reality, he has long been the real accuser of the brethren, long before I came on the scene.
12 For we don’t dare classify or compare ourselves with some who commend themselves. But in measuring themselves by themselves and comparing themselves to themselves, they lack understanding.
~ 2Co 10:12 (HCSB)
Ironically, by him judging others is exactly what “Laodicean” means, yet that is the term he uses while pointing the finger and assesses another’s spiritual condition.
9 At that time, when you call, the Lord will answer;
when you cry out, He will say, ‘Here I am.’
If you get rid of the yoke among you,
the finger-pointing and malicious speaking,
10 and if you offer yourself to the hungry,
and satisfy the afflicted one,
then your light will shine in the darkness,
and your night will be like noonday.
~ Isa 58:9-10 (HCSB)
The ultimate irony is that he is one of many who will beat their chests, proclaiming their goodness by classifying themselves as “Philadelphian”, that is of the character and mindset of brotherly love, all while exalting themselves.
Dr Bob wrote:
On the internet, sometimes when lies are repeated often by various sources, many accept lies as facts.
I have to believe he was looking in the mirror when writing that. He has constantly taken the words of others out of context and twisted them, just as he does the Bible. Inevitably, he invokes certain themes over and over, such as “we are the Philadelphian remnant” when his very words and attitude displayed in his writing reveal nothing of the sort and calling anyone who is not associated with him “Laodicean”. As time goes on, he becomes more like James Malm every day.
He also tries to be subtle when making his snide comments:
John Carmack claims to be COG member.
However, such language really is not really all that subtle, not at all objective, not at all called for and not at all Christian. Of course, Bob Thiel most likely is not a real Christian either, seeing as he is a false prophet anyhow.
3 Now the serpent was more subtle than any beast of the field which Jehovah God had made….
~ Ge 3:1 (ASV)
He is upset at this time (he has made false accusations against me in the past as well), because I actually quoted and responded to a church he is affiliated with…
Whenever corrected, I have accommodated just and true corrections. He is just upset because I refuse to bow down to him and acknowledge his prophet-ness, which is dealing with reality. Of course, it is very possible that Dr Bob is so delusional he actually believes he is a prophet, and that is why he so viciously guards that title.
No, I was and still am upset that he constantly, like James Malm, takes things out of context and maligns others for no purpose other than to gain a following after himself. Maybe Dr Bob should run for office, since his lust for power can only be matched by the corrupt self-serving politicians running for president this year.
First, if John Carmack would have paid more attention to the Bible, he would have realized that Joseph had dreams from God about himself (Genesis 37:5-10) and that he past on to others who criticized him for doing so (Genesis 37:10-11). Yet Joseph, and not the criticizers, was proven correct. Isaiah also had a vision/dream about his commission (Isaiah 6:1-8). So the idea that prophets cannot get messages about themselves to pass on is not true.
First, if Dr Bob wasn’t so narcissistic, he would realize that it is only initially that dreams and visions build up the prophet to prepare him for the mission. The exception is when God warns a prophet about imminent danger, as when Jesus’ stepfather Joseph had a dream to flee to Egypt. They are not part of the message, and Dr Bob makes the message about himself. Joseph son of Jacob did not.
In fact, here is an interesting fact. Joseph only had the two dreams. The rest of the time, he was interpreting the dreams for others. His past dreams were only a preparation point, but his interpretations of the dreams of others was what proved his original dreams to be true.
Isaiah had a vision, which is not a dream. Regardless, was it his original vision that proved he was a prophet? No, it was to prepare Isaiah for the real messages he was to give. The vision was to convince the prophet, not others. It was the message and subsequent events that proved the validity of the original vision.
What proves Dr Bob is a prophet? It is not the original dream(s). It must be something subsequent that can prove that the original dream had merit, just as it was in the case of Joseph. Otherwise, it is just the carnal mind at work in the night. That leaves Dr Bob without proof.
Second, in terms of results, one the of dreams I had clearly began to come to pass. I had a dream where Dr. R.C. Meredith, who at the time told me he considered me to be a personal friend, stopped talking with me–and this happened…
Of course, we only have Dr Bob’s testimony on this one. Still, is there anything miraculous in this? Is there anything here that says it is from God? Or, could it simply be that Dr Bob’s subconscious has such an earnest desire to be important that he himself caused the events that made the dream come about? I’m inclined to believe the latter because there is nothing he has said or done that convinces me that he is a prophet at all, let alone a prophet of God.
Furthermore, someone in New Zealand, that I did not know, also had a dream related to me, part of which came to pass within weeks of her having it…
I see what you did there. You are not fooling the ones who are truly awake. Your tortured logic only works on those already seriously deceived.
So, who is the prophet? Dr Bob or the one from New Zealand? If dreams are the stuff of prophets, then obviously this is proof that someone other than Dr Bob is a prophet, if you follow the train of logic to its natural conclusion. Of course, this is all derailed because dreams do not alone prove a prophet. We all dream, so are we all prophets?
Third, I did deliver a message … that one of the top leaders in that church was about to be struck with something if his word was not kept…. Several weeks later, Dr. Meredith was struck with his first significant ministroke….
Again, we only have Dr Bob’s word on this. Having said this, if it is true (and that is not a given but an assumption here), this is perhaps the one and only real sign of anything. In fact, this stands in stark contrast to other things that Dr Bob claims in many ways. If he were a real prophet, there would be more of this category, but let’s leave the potatoes behind and get to the meat of the matter, shall we? For Dr Bob himself follows this up with:
I also attempted to convey a message to Dr. Meredith on December 19, 2011 that it seemed God was telling me that his wife was about to be struck with something serious.
Aha! Notice the “subtlety” here!
First, though, why did his attempt fail? If God truly had a message to be delivered, would it not have been delivered? If God was behind it, then how did Dr Bob fail?
Second, and more important, this is not a prophetic prediction! Do God’s prophets go around saying “it seems”, “if he does resign”, “he may be out”, “if he does”, and so forth, and these are just a few examples in his article that he touts out as “proof” believe it or not!
The story of Jonah, Dr Bob Translation <sarcasm>:
And Jonah traveled from the entrance to the city about a day’s journey, and he cried aloud saying, “Yet perhaps forty days, and Nineveh might be overthrown, if that is what is meant to be!”
And of course, while the Baron did not resign in 2010…
Which makes you a false prophet. Either it occurred as you said God told you it would or not. If it is speculation, then it is not a prophetic prediction, and therefore is not allowed as proof of being a prophet.
That was why I was bold enough to say that if Baron Guttenberg could be the one to fulfill this meant he would have more problems–and he did!
Again, I see what you did there.
You know, it takes a lot of guts to be “bold enough” to proclaim “that if”! LOL!
The fact that he indicated he might resign in 2010 was another factor that got me to consider that he might be the final King of the North.
C’mon, Dr Bob! Is he or isn’t he? Either he is or he is not, and if you were truly a prophet you would tell us or shut up about it! Put your money where your mouth is! I dare you! You want to use it as proof? Then either do something or get off the pot!
My statement was based on Daniel 11:21.
You are lying again, Dr Bob. If it was based on Scripture, then it would be a sure thing. Here’s a real Scripture for you:
12 For now we see in a mirror dimly, but then face to face. Now I know in part; then I shall know fully, even as I have been fully known.
~ 1Co 13:12
If Paul, who was both apostle and prophet, could only see the future darkly, then how much arrogance does it take to believe you see it clearly? However, if it were clear enough to teach others, then it would already be clear. If it is speculation, though, then it is not a prophetic prediction.
Dr Bob uses misdirection a lot when speaking and writing. Logic tends to move in a straight line, whereas misdirection and twisting of words tends to lead down rabbit holes.
Since I first wrote about him in late 2009, there have been at least eight speculative predictions that I posted online that Baron Guttenberg has somewhat fulfilled.
Which still means you are a false prophet. You are touting out speculation as proof, and even if that speculation is partially wrong, then you by your own admission are a false prophet.
21 And if you say in your heart, ‘How may we know the word that the Lord has not spoken?’— 22 when a prophet speaks in the name of the Lord, if the word does not come to pass or come true, that is a word that the Lord has not spoken; the prophet has spoken it presumptuously. You need not be afraid of him.
~ Dt 18:21-22 (ESV)
So, by claiming such speculative predictions as “somewhat fulfilled”, Dr Bob has effectively cursed himself!
So, no, I am not afraid of such a false prophet, nor shall I ever be, God willing. In fact, if he says to follow him to the Place of Safety and goes west, I’ll gladly go east.
Perhaps I should add that my prediction related to what the Pope did related to Syria a couple of years ago (see Francis prays and fasts to ‘Mary’) came to pass (Middle East Peace?), even though it looked to many that the Pope had succeeded…
I looked from beginning to end in that article, and I do not see a single prediction from Dr Bob! Here is the only “prediction” in the article:
The Bible does not teach that we are to pray to or fast to Mary. The Pope seems to believe that prayers and fasts for ‘Mary’ may bring peace to Syria…
So, unless Dr Bob now thinks he is the pope, and I honestly will not rule that out given his tendencies towards Catholic prophecies, either he made no such prediction or I need to clean my glasses. Just in case he decides to “rectify” the situation, I have posted a PDF of the current article as-is online.
Notice that God’s prophet specifically explained how a lying prophecy was going to be successful. When it comes to Catholic, Eastern Orthodox, Hindu, and Chinese prophecies, I have done the same thing.
No, Dr Bob, it is not the same thing. At all. What are we supposed to be studying? God’s word or the words of false teachers, false prophets and false religions? It is one thing to know enough to compare and contrast, but it is another to completely wallow in false teachings.
When 50% of your writings are about what some long forgotten pope or ancient Chinese prophet said and not the word of God, I’d say you have a very real problem!
God says what His standard is, and that is all that matters:
20 To the law and to the testimony: if they speak not according to this word, it is because there is no light in them.
~ Isa 8:20
I would like to see where God says to study in intricate detail the many and varied false prophecies in this world and compare them to His word, let alone where He says to wallow in them. It is one thing to use someone’s beliefs and learn enough about they why of what they do in order to explain to them why it is not correct, but does that mean you have to spend more time studying pagan beliefs than the word of God?
Faithful Christians are not to be ignorant of Satan’s devices…
Faithful Christians are not to sit at Satan’s feet learning his devices.
Speaking of Satan’s devices, here is an excerpt from the Life Hope & Truth article, “Don’t Be Ignorant of Satan’s Devices
that ties right into this discussion:
Paul warned about another device of Satan: Itching ears. “For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine, but according to their own desires, because they have itching ears, they will heap up for themselves teachers; and they will turn their ears away from the truth, and be turned aside to fables” (2 Timothy 4:3-4).
Paul was warning Timothy of a natural tendency of human beings to want to hear new things, smooth things, things that appeal to us. Satan creates or exploits a quirk of human nature that allows even the amazing truths of God to seem boring! We must not fall prey to this weapon of Satan.
I bolded the text that should point to the human condition where we tend to seek out teachings from somewhere other than the Bible! It becomes the “same” or “boring”, etc. I have always pointed to putting down that magazine or booklet and picking up the Bible! It is the only sure word! Church organizations may or may not publish wonderful and inspiring commentaries. Hey, even some Protestant organizations do! However, that is not our foundation!
If you want to discuss Satan’s devices, his real means of attack that is, then why not discuss pride, arrogance, narcissism, causing division and strife, finger pointing and blaming others? In fact, Dr Bob caused great disunity and division by claiming to be a prophet and leaving his former organization when they did not recognize how “great” he is.
So, because John Carmack does NOT hold to what the old WCG taught about church governance …, birthdays …, church eras …, etc. he claims my words are not consistent with scripture. Yet, I have scripture-based articles on those subjects and more.
I freely admit that I do “NOT hold to what the old WCG taught” about many things. That is because my textbook is the Bible, Dr Bob, not pagan prophecies or the booklets and magazines of men.
Please quote me the Scripture, “Thou shalt have top-down government” or “Thou shalt be lead by one and only one man”. Look at the Book of Judges, and you will see that many judges overlapped. Look at the history of Israel, and there were two, count ’em, two kings, one over each country. Dare we limit God to only working through one man? Many underground churches existed in China, where the old WCG never stepped foot in!
Please quote me the Scripture, “Thou shalt not observe the anniversary of thy birth.” It does not exist! In fact, many birthdays are significant in many ways. Twenty was the age you could go to war. Thirty was the required age to become a rabbi. Forty is significant, for you have endured. Even now, the Jews have a ceremony for teens as they progress towards adulthood.
Just because pagans observed birthdays, does that make it wrong? Pagans wiped their behinds after doing their business, too, so should we not do so? Pagans had thrones for their kings, and so did Israel, so was that condemned in Scripture?
The problem with arrogance is that you do not recognize your own ignorance, and there is a lesson for this for everyone. We cannot assume that we know everything about everything. Unfortunately, all of these church organizations push the agenda that they know everything because that is what they have been taught to do. Some are worse than others, and some have made great strides in overcoming this legacy, but it still exists.
God condemned pagan rituals used in religious ceremonies, which included borrowing their holy days (“holidays” comes from “holy days”), sacrificing as they did, worshiping as they did, etc.
Yet, even then, God instituted a priesthood. Well, pagans had a priesthood. God instituted sacrifices. Pagans had sacrifices. It wasn’t the what – it was the how.
As far as laxity on the sanctity of marriage, this is another clearly false accusation on his part–I did object to what I was aware of on this while part of LCG and it has long been in my list of doctrinal differences with LCG (see Why Bob Thiel Left the Living Church of God and What About the Living Church of God? Are there Doctrinal Differences with the Continuing Church of God?).
John Carmack has never contacted me about any supposed laxity in marriage in the Continuing Church of God nor provided any specific proof or example.
First of all, here is yet another example of Dr Bob making things up and linking to rubbish, at least as far as the first link is concerned.
You can search for “divorce” and “marriage” and even just “marr” on that page, and it will come up empty! It is simply there so he can have two links, which would look impressive but only to those who did not actually click on them.
The second link does indeed, far down and buried, have a blurb about the laxity of marriage in LCG. So, here’s my question: If this really is important enough to list, then why not put out articles on the sanctity of marriage rather than the usual skimming of news articles to try to shoehorn into a false prophecy? Simply put, it is because the sanctity of marriage is not as important as stroking Dr Bob’s big ego and “prophecies” which are no prophecies.
See? I am willing to admit I wrote something incorrect, unlike Dr Bob’s charge. However, how much importance he really places on it by burying it on another page that is meant to promote his leaving LCG and creating his own organization tells us exactly how much he really cares about it. The fact that I did not even was aware of it tells a lot too, since all I ever see is how all the other organizations are “Laodicean” and going through the Tribulation instead of real biblical teaching.
The fact that John Carmack seemingly rejects aspects of biblical governance and does not condemn the celebration of birthdays, does not make my scriptural and historical references wrong.
Of course not! That’s exactly the point! It is the Bible that says you are wrong, not me!
The innuendo from him is that I do this for money–which he calls enrichment. That is completely and utterly false. I do not take a salary from the Continuing Church of God, nor did I take one from the old Global or Living Church of God despite the over a decade of volunteer work I did.
That line about innuendo is priceless, since that is what every Dr Bob article has dripping off of it.
Where did I say he got a salary from GCG or LCG? Where? Why bring that up?
Perhaps “enrichment” was a poor choice of words. One definition of enrich is:
to supply with abundance of anything desirable:
to enrich the mind with knowledge.
I do not know if Dr Bob makes any real money, but I do know he travels and gets to speak at various venues and of course gets to pump up his ego at every turn. No, Dr Bob isn’t in it for the money. He’s in it for the attention it gets him. He needs the ego-boost, which is why his favorite pastime is to misquote others and make comparisons of how beneath him they are.
Claiming that this is for my personal ‘enrichment’ is false.
OK, Dr Bob, you win this one! It isn’t for your personal enrichment, it is for your person glory. Happy now?
Also, I have done about 63 radio interviews since the formation of the Continuing Church of God in order to reach the world …
No, you did it to promote yourself and your prophet-ness.
The Continuing Church of God has been the fastest growing COG since its formation in late 2012. It has exceeded the 30% growth in both membership and income …
Can you give me the Scripture that indicates that rapid growth is the sign of God’s backing? After all, Mormons, Jehovah’s Witnesses and even SDAs have experienced rapid growth at one time or another in their history. At any rate, 30% growth is a lot more expected when it starts very small. When a couple have their first baby, their family grows by 33%, you know.
As far as “elevation of status” goes, it was LCG’s Dr. Meredith who telephoned me and told me that God may consider me to be a prophet on October 3, 2008…
Do you maintain a straight face when you write stuff like that? How utterly convincing! He may be considered a prophet!
he told me in January 2009 if he was ever to appoint himself an apostle that he may ordain me a prophet, shows the view he himself once had.
It shows the apple doesn’t fall far from the tree. Like spiritual father, like spiritual son.
So, where’s God in all of this? I mean, other than dreams that could mean just about anything.
The fact that an LCG minister was later inspired to pray that God would grant me a ‘double-portion’ of His Spirit on December 15, 2011, and told me that this was reminiscent of the passing of the mantle from the prophet Elijah to Elisha …
It is reminiscent of the time I took a particular path because I “knew” God had ordained that path for me. In reality, I just was looking so hard for something to validate what I wanted that anything would have done.
Again, where is God in all of this? A man laid hands on you. Lots of people over time have had hands laid upon them for various things, but you know what? A lot of those people don’t even darken a church door any longer, let alone the COG. Was that ordained by God?
God instructed Elijah beforehand to ordain Elisha. Elisha did not go to Elijah. Elijah came to Elisha.
Furthermore, Elijah did not later downplay what had occurred. All of LCG, including the minister who anointed Dr Bob backed off of the “double portion” statement shortly thereafter. So, what does that speak of as far as that anointing goes?
The Apostle Paul called himself an apostle and prophet, yet he was not one of the original apostles. And no, I have never claimed the title of ‘apostle,’ nor “jerked” titles out of context).
Yes, Dr Bob has! “Prophet” was jerked out of context, and the entire twisted story of Dr Bob’s departure from LCG proves it!
The second issue is that no later than the start of the Continuing Church of God, the article Who is COGwriter? has stated:
“Don’t simply believe me – Believe what the Bible really Teaches – Believe the Truth – Prove all things – Believe God!”
John Carmack’s innuendo that I expect people to do otherwise is false.
It is not innuendo. It is a fact that Dr Bob expects people to believe him or be labeled by the silly label that all false teachers use – “Laodicean”. Dr Bob expects people to believe him or go through the Tribulation (or so he teaches), when in reality we are never given any physical criteria for who will or will not do so.
36 Watch ye therefore, and pray always, that ye may be accounted worthy to escape all these things that shall come to pass, and to stand before the Son of man.
~ Lk 21:36
All we know is that Jesus said to pray we are “worthy”, which gets to the heart of the matter, literally. If our heart is not right, it will not matter what organization we belong to.
Jesus did not say to pray we belonged to the right organization. Jesus did not say to pray that we have every Pharisaic and debatable doctrinal point nailed down. Jesus did not say that we will be worthy by putting other organizations down. No, Jesus said to pray we may be accounted worthy, which should tell us that no one is actually worthy!
Instead of sneering at Laodiceans, perhaps the modern day Pharisees would be better off learning humility. In fact, that would be a better reason for someone to go through the Tribulation than whether or not they belong to xyzCOG.
Notice that Jesus warned that His people and His prophets are spoken against. This is happening today.
It is a fine balancing act, I’ll admit. While one can warn all day and all night about false teachers and false prophets, they will find a way to justify themselves, and developing a persecution complex is often the easiest means to an end.
The Bible teaches that Satan, “the accuser of our brethren” (Revelation 12:10), will be cast down. Yet, sadly, some seemingly wish to imitate him.
John Carmack is in my prayers (cf. Matthew 5:44).
And, yet, Bob really needs to look into the mirror and remove the narcissistic mote from his eye and quit accusing the real Christians who reject his lunacy.
My prayer is for Dr Bob’s followers. They will need more than just mine.
After [the Bereans] checked what Paul taught with the scriptures, they believed and followed. Sadly, many in Thessalonica did not do so. Do not imitate those of Thessalonica, but instead the faithful of Berea.
Yes, the Bereans “checked what Paul taught”. But what if Paul or even someone else came and taught what the Bible did not teach? Would we be commending them then? Of course not! So, whenever some charlatan pulls out this verse, remember:
21 Prove all things; hold fast that which is good.
~ 1Th 5:21
Open-mindedness means seeking the truth, not buying into every bottle of snake oil that comes along. It means opening up the Bible and proving it!
4 His sons used to hold feasts in their homes on their birthdays, and they would invite their three sisters to eat and drink with them.
~ Job 1:4 (NIV)
Interesting how some will fight tooth and nail to deny this, yet when you compare “his day” (KJV) to later in the book:
3 After this, Job opened his mouth and cursed the day of his birth.
~ Job 3:1 (NIV)
There is no scholarly debate about this verse. “His day” (KJV) clearly means the date of his birth!
Now, some have told me, “The Bible interprets the Bible.” Well, here you have it! Will you believe it or play the hypocrite? Will you believe the Bible or follow a hypocrite and false prophet who has been proven wrong on just about every count?
After all, you only have your salvation to lose.