According to the AC website:
Richard Pinelli, 1 Jan 2011
Dave Myers (Akron, OH), 1 Jan 2011
Notes:
1. Dave Myers intended to resign today, but I’ve heard on pretty good authority that he was actually forced to resign one day early.
1a. This one is particularly sad because it is a case of a family being divided.
2. There are more resignations yet. I personally know one more that was going to resign today, and there are others I’ve heard of.
Meanwhile, Victor Kubik is going to be pretty busy:
Lafayette Victor Kubik
Terre Haute Victor Kubik
Cincinnati East (AM & PM) Victor Kubik
Bethlehem Victor Kubik
Meadville Victor Kubik
Philadelphia
Victor Kubik
York Victor Kubik
Austin Victor Kubik
Coleman Victor Kubik
Waco Victor Kubik
Lusaka Victor Kubik
Mumbwa Victor Kubik
Hope that travel budget can take all that going back and forth. Meanwhile, how are the flock going to be fed when you only see your pastor once every two months or so?
0 Comments
It is very sad for me reading the many posts over the last few days. I live in an area where there is no division in the local ministry, and as far as I can tell in the members, although there are some concerns. Therefore, I feel like an arm chair critic compared to those of you who are in the thick of it.
I am not sad about many of you looking somewhere other than UCG, I am sad that brethren all over America, and some other parts of the world, are having to make similar decisions that should never have had to be made.
From afar, I do not see this like 1995. Then I saw it as clear cut, you either stayed with the truth or went down the Protestant path. This is much harder to define. In the end it seems that there is a complete breakdown of relationships between the factions.
I know this is super optimistic (especially given the prophecy in Ezek. 34:17-22), but perhaps the sheep can show the shepherds how to do it. I hope that people stay friendly, even if the ministers don't, perhaps even visiting different services occasionally in a non-judgmental way. However all too often bitterness develops and divides. Already some posts seem to have a triumphal ring to them. For me, most of us are all brothers and share common beliefs. My only wish for you is that you find a peaceful fellowship where truth is taught, whatever the label, whoever they may be. Perhaps you need to stay out of it for a while to see how it all pans out.
Whatever you do, do not burn bridges and stay alert. Fruit takes time to develop and mature, so never say “never”, whatever side you are currently on.
@BureauCat: I agree. There are people still in UCG that I like and respect. I hope that the wounds for everyone can heal and not have it rupture family or friendships.
Who knows? You can always hope that there will be a coming together before its all over.
BureauCat,
I find it interesting that you, from afar, gave a thought to 1995 and "…factions…" I'd like to share some thoughts relative to this.
For what it is worth, there was a special memo written by a concerned minister regarding his “Hopes for Indianapolis.” That memo, which follows, was read to all in attendance on the last day of the Indianapolis Conference, May 2, 1995, by Victor Kubik, who was "pretty busy" back then, as part of his final words to all of us there.
————————
“CAN IT EVER BE? That cohesive, Christ-led entity that we all want so dearly?
Or does Indy seal our fate to fractions and factions? The hopes are high, the
stakes are critical. Indy will be either a dawning of a New World Tomorrow,
or the proof of our folly.
PIE IN THE SKY is what the detractors say. Some of them are us, you know.
Our “leaders” have already laid foundations and are even laying superstructure. The meek words of just a few weeks ago… “We’ve just started this in case it’s of any help, but we’ll gladly dissolve it” are seemingly replaced with corporate structures lauding the wisdom of “follow me.” Has “unity” already slipped to a cliché, a buzzword of egotists? I’ve seen that once people invest time, money and gain supporters they “have God’s blessing.” After all, they prayed about it.
Dissolution of their structure for a greater cause becomes too great a defeat.
The show must go on.
WHAT IS INDY? It’s a chance for a ground up, New Testament organized body of believers.
WHAT WILL INDY BE? I know what you and I want it to be. But do you know what many see it as? Separate leaders of several pre-formed groups pushing their system at each other, followed by the winner selling it to the ministry. The ministry is invited to view the outcome and cast in their lot, depending on
who “wins” and if they like the smell of it.
WHO LOSES IF INDY FALTERS? The churches back home. The little flocks who are staking their faith in Indy. The loyal pastors who have forfeited everything to wait on Christ and to come learn His will for their next step. I hope He’s there. He resists the proud and gives grace to the humble.
Just some concerns and fears … I don’t know what it WILL be, I know what it MIGHT be and what it CAN be. I’ll be there in support. Be careful who gets control. Make sure it’s God.”
————————-
Guess what? With the passage of 15 years for the United Association fractions and factions have become a huge reality today.
The concluding paragraph makes mention about "…control…" Who is in charge/control? That's still a question in the minds of many; however, no human being has the power to “…make sure it’s God!”
Besides, who knows? Perhaps someday we may learn that Mr. Joe Tkach, Senior, was the "right" man for the job after Mr. Armstrong died. A prophesied scattering of God's Church can be found in the Bible. When both men completed their jobs, they died. Surely, God has the power to have inspired HWA to choose a Flurry, a Hulme, a Meredith, a Pack, a McCullough…a Franks…Kilough, Luker, etc." if God had wanted any of them instead of Mr. Tkach, Senior, but time will tell…
John
@John, what's stopping you from going to UCG occasionally and worshiping with those you like and respect. Why do you personally have to wait till its all over.
Unity begins with us, not with a corporation.
Corporations divide!
"I'm staying in United Church of God," our pastor said during his sermon time today.
But during a question time tacked on to the end of the service, he said he's told Home Office his first obligation is to his two-congregation circuit. He's not interested in "putting out fires" in other areas.
So while he may be asked to fill in once in a while somewhere, this pastor's circuit won't expand for now. We'll see if that lasts.
@Kevin: Um, where did I say I wouldn't? In fact, once things settle, I fully intend to attend at least one CGI service to satisfy my curiosity.
After all, if I'm really going to blog about all the big COGs, doesn't it behoove me to try to find out all I reasonably can?
John D Carmack said…
After all, if I'm really going to blog about all the big COGs, doesn't it behoove me to try to find out all I reasonably can?
DCP,
If you are really serious about checking out the major players on the COG scene, how about checking out David Pack's Restored Church? Find out first hand if he is really as evil as some say he is, or if there is something to his work. Then, report your findings here.
That other noisy dictator, Gerald Flurry, turned out to be just a lying fraud and his cult is now in irreversible decline. So, maybe Pack is the one true dictator. After all, year after year, for a dozen years now, Pack has claimed that his work is just "exploding" in size. Either it will get big and important or else all the "exploding" will leave a lot of wounded people lying around.
This mission, should you choose to accept it, could provide valuable information for COG people planning their future strategy. It is a potentially very dangerous mission that could leave you utterly ruined, as it reportedly has some others, so feel free to decline it if it scares you.
@Anonymous: No, thanks. His "open letters" tell me everything I want to know. Nothing like words straight from the horse's mouth, you know.
Besides, requiring me to fill out a web form to even find out where congregations are is already a sign that something is wrong.
Hope that travel budget can take all that going back and forth. Meanwhile, how are the flock going to be fed when you only see your pastor once every two months or so?
The way I see it…God will feed his flock…he has done it in the past and I am sure he will be doing it now…sometimes I think some forget who is in charge…ministers? or God…we should be praying your Kingdom come we need Gods government here…we are the body of his church…we need to be showing love…even if that means our enemy…we all need to stop and let the healing begin as I see it God is not done with us…
Anonymous wrote: "The way I see it…God will feed his flock."
True, very true. John said God could raise up children of Abraham from the rocks surrounding them as well. John said this to the Pharisees. Bottom line, it pretty much is the same message, though: You are not doing what you are supposed to be doing.